[Adta] RE: Adta Digest, Vol 16, Issue 13

Tue Feb 6 08:49:59 EST 2007

Dear Susan,

I'm really sorry that I missed that presentation in New Orleans. Truer words 
were never spoken!  The use of our own authentic self that has been honed 
through both personal work and accruing knowledge is our most powerful tool 
as d/mt's.  It's the most powerful yet the hardest course to follow.  It's 
so much easier to rely on effort classification or diagnostic formulation 
than it is to be wholly present, in your own body, to another human being!  
Thanks for saying it so succinctly!

Julie Miller

>From: adta-request at adta.org
>Reply-To: adta at adta.org
>To: adta at adta.org
>Subject: Adta Digest, Vol 16, Issue 13
>Date: 6 Feb 2007 00:25:45 -0800
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder (skdmt2)
>    2. Re: RE: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
>       (awenner at optonline.net)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:04:15 -0500
>From: "skdmt2" <skdmt2 at bellsouth.net>
>Subject: [Adta] RE: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
>To: <nava_lotan at yahoo.com>, <adta at adta.org>, <awenner at optonline.net>
>Message-ID:
>	<20070205200401.LXNW27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net at activevmmhybc5>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Nava, Anne & others interested in this subj.
>
>  Nava said: " Watching the body of ED women lately, it is very
>clear to me that it is a syndrome which is built on
>many different manifestations.  The ED symptoms may be
>similar but each body "tell" a different story-
>require a different intervening strategy.  Some are
>more into Verticality, exploring boundaries and others
>are more horizontal.  Did you or anyone else looked
>and published about movement profiles of ED?"
>
>I agree & think the ED is a very complex disorder
>
>My forte has not been in the area of movement profiles of ED but more in
>understanding the experience of ED & helping women move their ED  aside to
>reclaim their bodies & their "self"
>Perhaps others can respond though re this issue, as well as what I am
>including below.
>
>I have my own way of describing what I see-, perhaps not terribly efficient
>but more in terms of metaphor, countertransferential responses that I
>attempt to balance & to use, etc.
>I think I addressed that in an ADTA conference presentation in 2004 in New
>Orleans.
>Here's my abstract.
>Use of Self as a Dance/Movement Therapist: Our Greatest Therapeutic Tool
>
>   Human beings communicate through their bodies long before they learn to
>talk (Kleinman & Hall, 2003). As we develop we add words to our
>communication, however, body language remains our most acute means of
>recognizing our needs and expressing ourselves (Chace with Dyrud, 1993;
>Kleinman & Hall, 2003). Yet, when faced with difficult therapeutic
>situations, dance/movement therapists often look to techniques or props,
>rather then trusting their own sense of self, to determine their responses.
>According to Yalom, "Above all, the therapist must be prepared to go
>wherever the patient goes". .I believe technique is facilitated when it
>emanates from the therapist's unique encounter with the patient" (2002).
>The therapists' own experience of embodiment, ability to access their own
>unconscious material, and way of being in their body, is part of their 
>sense
>of self, and plays a role in the healing process between therapist and
>client ( Harris & Kleinman, 2003).  According to Virginia Satir,  "When I 
>am
>in touch with myself, my feelings, my thoughts, with what I see and hear, I
>am growing toward becoming a more integrated self. I am more congruent, I 
>am
>more 'whole,' and I am able to make greater contact with the other person."
>Satir, V, p27 (1987).
>  As dance/movement therapists, we need to be especially sensitive to the
>subtle dynamic between our own body/mind experience and that of our
>patients. Our use of "self" is, in essence, our greatest therapeutic tool.
>
>	Harris, R. & Kleinman, S. ( 2003). Training for becoming an Embodied
>Therapist. Presented at The 13th Annual Renfrew Center Foundation
>Conference, Feminists Perspectives on Body Image, Trauma and Healing.
>Philadelphia, PA.
>	Kleinman, S.& Hall, T. (2003). Dance/movement therapy: A method for
>embodying emotions. The Renfrew Center Working Papers, Volume 1, Fall.
>	Satir, V. (1987). The therapist story. In M. Baldwin & V. Satir
>(Eds.), The use of self in therapy (p. 23). New York: The Haworth Press.
>	Yalom, I. D.  (2002). The gift of therapy (p. 34). New York:
>HarperCollins.
>
>Susan
>
>Susan Kleinman, MA, ADTR, NCC
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nava lotan [mailto:nava_lotan at yahoo.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:28 AM
>To: skdmt2; adta at adta.org
>Subject: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
>
>Thank you Susan
>What a wonderful response.  You know, I wonder if we
>can speak about Somatic Transference, counter
>transference and projective identification
>(kinesthetic empathy, attunement etc..) by using
>mirror neurons language-
>
>   Watching the body of ED women lately, it is very
>clear to me that it is a syndrome which is built on
>many different manifestations.  The ED symptoms may be
>similar but each body "tell" a different story-
>require a different intervening strategy.  Some are
>more into Verticality, exploring boundaries and others
>are more horizontal.  Did you or anyone else looked
>and published about movement profiles of ED?  ..and
>again I really appreciate relating so quickly to my
>inquiries.
>best
>Nava Lotan
>Israel
>--- skdmt2 <skdmt2 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Nava!
> > You said: " Hi Susan
> >
> > I watched the movie THIN, which I believe was filmed
> >
> > in your center (yes?) last year.  After the film, my
> >
> > students and I felt an urge to eat and we
> > experienced
> >
> > a feeling of starvation.  As if we have/must eat
> >
> > immediately and eat a lot!  It was very strange.
> > The
> >
> > movie is difficult to watch and I wonder if this is
> >
> > something you experience and what you are making of
> >
> > it?  somatic transference?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope you don't mind the question and will appreciate
> >
> > your comments
> >
> > feel free to respond through the list,
> >
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Nava Lotan "
> >
> >
>................................................................
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I think you are probably experiencing somatic
> > transference & I am not
> > immune however, I believe it can be transformed into
> > a very useful
> > therapeutic tool, if we are able to understand what
> > is we are dealing with-
> > what is getting triggered for us.
> >
> > I am including a section of a Working Paper on group
> > therapy- see
> > below-unfortunately it is no longer available- that
> > explores this issue.
> >
> >
> >
> >  Interesting isn't it!  let me explain a bit I think
> > is relevant.  People w/
> > ED tend to make everything about food, physical
> > weight, size, body parts
> > instead of the issues that underlie ED. I compare
> > living w/ ED to living in
> > a very restricted space in one's house & trying to
> > keep everything under
> > control in that space. Over the weekend in Central
> > Florida, there were some
> > terrible tornados & one woman was shown on TV who
> > sought refuge in her
> > bathroom. When she emerged after the tornado, she
> > found everything intact in
> > her bedroom but when she opened the door to the rest
> > of her house, it was a
> > shambles- That's kind if what happens w/ an ED- The
> > ED person, in an attempt
> > to deal w/ life, tries to use only ED behaviors as
> > coping mechanisms because
> > they are so scared or overwhelmed re their life.
> >
> > In their development & history there may be lots of
> > control, trauma, perhaps
> > some genetic factors also- a predisposition to an
> > ED, they feel so
> > overwhelmed & often frightened dealing w/ life
> > through a more "normal"
> > route, that they detour & try to restrict their
> > feelings & thoughts, pick on
> > themselves, put themselves down, run from themselves
> > to try to find relief,
> > to find ways to purge their feelings, stuff them
> > inside & try to protect
> > them, etc. Eventually, this turns into what is
> > called an eating disorder.
> >
> >
> >
> >  I try to refocus the women I see on the underlying
> > issues & also to
> > separate food from feelings, physical weight &
> > hunger from emotional weight
> > & hunger, etc. I let the nutritionists & medical
> > staff deal with those
> > issues &   try  to understand & help them understand
> > what they are
> > experiencing, express it, & connect the meaning of
> > these feelings, patterns,
> > events, etc, in their lives, as well as to challenge
> > them to take risks to
> > live more expansively.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, may people w/ ED have OCD or very ritualistic
> > behaviors & that is seen
> > of course in their whole movement repertoire, as
> > well as in the dining room,
> > where food rituals are not allowed. Cognitive
> > thinking is often so black &
> > white- so linear- it's like swimming in a pool- up
> > one lane & back, rather
> > then including abstract thinking- being in the gray
> > areas- of course, d/mt
> > is grey.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, FYI As you noticed, I'm sure, barely any
> > therapy was shown in THIN,
> > although it was filmed. It just wasn't what the
> > director chose to show.
> >
> >
> >
> > I see that I've gotten somewhat off track from your
> > specific question but
> > realize that what was triggered for me was one of
> > the most impt issues I
> > believe in treating ED & that is understanding & as
> > d/mts, that means
> > getting involved & working to understand & balance
> > our own personal
> > responses- physical, emotional-cognitive, often as
> > cues.
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps others who work w/ ED will also respond to
> > these issues raised by
> > Nava & her students. Patrizia, you also may have
> > some things to add ( see
> > below)
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for writing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Susan
> >
> >
> >
> > Susan kleinman, MA ADTR, NCC
> >
> >
>................................................................
> >
> > Reference info: Kleinman, S., Gerstein, F., Botwin,
> > S.,   Developing
> > Connections in Group Therapy. The Renfrew Center
> > Working Papers, Volume 2,
> > Fall., 2004
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From Developing Connections in Group Therapy
> >
> > Fran Gerstein, PhD, Shari Botwin, LCSW, Susan
> > Kleinman, MA, ADTR, NCC
> >
> >
> >
> >  "... Managing Countertransference
> >
> >   Eating disorder therapists are prone to certain
> > types of
> > countertransferential, often visceral in nature.
> > One notable somatic
> > reaction to dealing with anorexic patients is that
> > therapists can find
> > themselves hungry and fantasizing about food during
> > a group session.  It is
> > as if the therapist picks up the sense of "hunger"
> > and deprivation the
> > patient is attempting to ward off. Because Renfrew
> > therapists deal with so
> > many patients with eating disorders, they are prone
> > to very specific types
> > of somatic countertransferential feelings.  Pallaro,
> > in
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>________
>Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:53:55 +0000 (GMT)
>From: awenner at optonline.net
>Subject: [Adta] Re: RE: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
>To: skdmt2 <skdmt2 at bellsouth.net>
>Cc: adta at adta.org
>Message-ID: <e258af19344a.45c7d1a3 at optonline.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>While we are having a discussion re: ED's - I'd like to recommend a website 
>called www.any-body.org.  Please visit this website which has wonderful 
>resources regarding body image.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: skdmt2
>Date: Monday, February 5, 2007 3:04 pm
>Subject: RE: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
>To: nava_lotan at yahoo.com, adta at adta.org, awenner at optonline.net
>
> > Hi Nava, Anne & others interested in this subj.
> >
> > Nava said: " Watching the body of ED women lately, it is very
> > clear to me that it is a syndrome which is built on
> > many different manifestations. The ED symptoms may be
> > similar but each body "tell" a different story-
> > require a different intervening strategy. Some are
> > more into Verticality, exploring boundaries and others
> > are more horizontal. Did you or anyone else looked
> > and published about movement profiles of ED?"
> >
> > I agree & think the ED is a very complex disorder
> >
> > My forte has not been in the area of movement profiles of ED but
> > more in
> > understanding the experience of ED & helping women move their ED
> > aside to
> > reclaim their bodies & their "self"
> > Perhaps others can respond though re this issue, as well as what
> > I am
> > including below.
> >
> > I have my own way of describing what I see-, perhaps not
> > terribly efficient
> > but more in terms of metaphor, countertransferential responses
> > that I
> > attempt to balance & to use, etc.
> > I think I addressed that in an ADTA conference presentation in
> > 2004 in New
> > Orleans.
> > Here's my abstract.
> > Use of Self as a Dance/Movement Therapist: Our Greatest
> > Therapeutic Tool
> >
> > Human beings communicate through their bodies long before they
> > learn to
> > talk (Kleinman & Hall, 2003). As we develop we add words to our
> > communication, however, body language remains our most acute
> > means of
> > recognizing our needs and expressing ourselves (Chace with
> > Dyrud, 1993;
> > Kleinman & Hall, 2003). Yet, when faced with difficult therapeutic
> > situations, dance/movement therapists often look to techniques
> > or props,
> > rather then trusting their own sense of self, to determine their
> > responses.According to Yalom, "Above all, the therapist must be
> > prepared to go
> > wherever the patient goes". .I believe technique is facilitated
> > when it
> > emanates from the therapist's unique encounter with the patient"
> > (2002).The therapists' own experience of embodiment, ability to
> > access their own
> > unconscious material, and way of being in their body, is part of
> > their sense
> > of self, and plays a role in the healing process between
> > therapist and
> > client ( Harris & Kleinman, 2003). According to Virginia Satir,
> > "When I am
> > in touch with myself, my feelings, my thoughts, with what I see
> > and hear, I
> > am growing toward becoming a more integrated self. I am more
> > congruent, I am
> > more 'whole,' and I am able to make greater contact with the
> > other person."
> > Satir, V, p27 (1987).
> > As dance/movement therapists, we need to be especially
> > sensitive to the
> > subtle dynamic between our own body/mind experience and that of our
> > patients. Our use of "self" is, in essence, our greatest
> > therapeutic tool.
> >
> > Harris, R. & Kleinman, S. ( 2003). Training for becoming an Embodied
> > Therapist. Presented at The 13th Annual Renfrew Center Foundation
> > Conference, Feminists Perspectives on Body Image, Trauma and Healing.
> > Philadelphia, PA.
> > Kleinman, S.& Hall, T. (2003). Dance/movement therapy: A method for
> > embodying emotions. The Renfrew Center Working Papers, Volume 1, Fall.
> > Satir, V. (1987). The therapist story. In M. Baldwin & V. Satir
> > (Eds.), The use of self in therapy (p. 23). New York: The
> > Haworth Press.
> > Yalom, I. D. (2002). The gift of therapy (p. 34). New York:
> > HarperCollins.
> >
> > Susan
> >
> > Susan Kleinman, MA, ADTR, NCC
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nava lotan [mailto:nava_lotan at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:28 AM
> > To: skdmt2; adta at adta.org
> > Subject: Movement Profile of Eating Disorder
> >
> > Thank you Susan
> > What a wonderful response. You know, I wonder if we
> > can speak about Somatic Transference, counter
> > transference and projective identification
> > (kinesthetic empathy, attunement etc..) by using
> > mirror neurons language-
> >
> > Watching the body of ED women lately, it is very
> > clear to me that it is a syndrome which is built on
> > many different manifestations. The ED symptoms may be
> > similar but each body "tell" a different story-
> > require a different intervening strategy. Some are
> > more into Verticality, exploring boundaries and others
> > are more horizontal. Did you or anyone else looked
> > and published about movement profiles of ED? ..and
> > again I really appreciate relating so quickly to my
> > inquiries.
> > best
> > Nava Lotan
> > Israel
> > --- skdmt2 wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Nava!
> > > You said: " Hi Susan
> > >
> > > I watched the movie THIN, which I believe was filmed
> > >
> > > in your center (yes?) last year. After the film, my
> > >
> > > students and I felt an urge to eat and we
> > > experienced
> > >
> > > a feeling of starvation. As if we have/must eat
> > >
> > > immediately and eat a lot! It was very strange.
> > > The
> > >
> > > movie is difficult to watch and I wonder if this is
> > >
> > > something you experience and what you are making of
> > >
> > > it? somatic transference?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope you don't mind the question and will appreciate
> > >
> > > your comments
> > >
> > > feel free to respond through the list,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > Nava Lotan "
> > >
> > >
> > ................................................................
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I think you are probably experiencing somatic
> > > transference & I am not
> > > immune however, I believe it can be transformed into
> > > a very useful
> > > therapeutic tool, if we are able to understand what
> > > is we are dealing with-
> > > what is getting triggered for us.
> > >
> > > I am including a section of a Working Paper on group
> > > therapy- see
> > > below-unfortunately it is no longer available- that
> > > explores this issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting isn't it! let me explain a bit I think
> > > is relevant. People w/
> > > ED tend to make everything about food, physical
> > > weight, size, body parts
> > > instead of the issues that underlie ED. I compare
> > > living w/ ED to living in
> > > a very restricted space in one's house & trying to
> > > keep everything under
> > > control in that space. Over the weekend in Central
> > > Florida, there were some
> > > terrible tornados & one woman was shown on TV who
> > > sought refuge in her
> > > bathroom. When she emerged after the tornado, she
> > > found everything intact in
> > > her bedroom but when she opened the door to the rest
> > > of her house, it was a
> > > shambles- That's kind if what happens w/ an ED- The
> > > ED person, in an attempt
> > > to deal w/ life, tries to use only ED behaviors as
> > > coping mechanisms because
> > > they are so scared or overwhelmed re their life.
> > >
> > > In their development & history there may be lots of
> > > control, trauma, perhaps
> > > some genetic factors also- a predisposition to an
> > > ED, they feel so
> > > overwhelmed & often frightened dealing w/ life
> > > through a more "normal"
> > > route, that they detour & try to restrict their
> > > feelings & thoughts, pick on
> > > themselves, put themselves down, run from themselves
> > > to try to find relief,
> > > to find ways to purge their feelings, stuff them
> > > inside & try to protect
> > > them, etc. Eventually, this turns into what is
> > > called an eating disorder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I try to refocus the women I see on the underlying
> > > issues & also to
> > > separate food from feelings, physical weight &
> > > hunger from emotional weight
> > > & hunger, etc. I let the nutritionists & medical
> > > staff deal with those
> > > issues & try to understand & help them understand
> > > what they are
> > > experiencing, express it, & connect the meaning of
> > > these feelings, patterns,
> > > events, etc, in their lives, as well as to challenge
> > > them to take risks to
> > > live more expansively.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, may people w/ ED have OCD or very ritualistic
> > > behaviors & that is seen
> > > of course in their whole movement repertoire, as
> > > well as in the dining room,
> > > where food rituals are not allowed. Cognitive
> > > thinking is often so black &
> > > white- so linear- it's like swimming in a pool- up
> > > one lane & back, rather
> > > then including abstract thinking- being in the gray
> > > areas- of course, d/mt
> > > is grey.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, FYI As you noticed, I'm sure, barely any
> > > therapy was shown in THIN,
> > > although it was filmed. It just wasn't what the
> > > director chose to show.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I see that I've gotten somewhat off track from your
> > > specific question but
> > > realize that what was triggered for me was one of
> > > the most impt issues I
> > > believe in treating ED & that is understanding & as
> > > d/mts, that means
> > > getting involved & working to understand & balance
> > > our own personal
> > > responses- physical, emotional-cognitive, often as
> > > cues.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps others who work w/ ED will also respond to
> > > these issues raised by
> > > Nava & her students. Patrizia, you also may have
> > > some things to add ( see
> > > below)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Susan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Susan kleinman, MA ADTR, NCC
> > >
> > >
> > ................................................................
> > >
> > > Reference info: Kleinman, S., Gerstein, F., Botwin,
> > > S., Developing
> > > Connections in Group Therapy. The Renfrew Center
> > > Working Papers, Volume 2,
> > > Fall., 2004
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From Developing Connections in Group Therapy
> > >
> > > Fran Gerstein, PhD, Shari Botwin, LCSW, Susan
> > > Kleinman, MA, ADTR, NCC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "... Managing Countertransference
> > >
> > > Eating disorder therapists are prone to certain
> > > types of
> > > countertransferential, often visceral in nature.
> > > One notable somatic
> > > reaction to dealing with anorexic patients is that
> > > therapists can find
> > > themselves hungry and fantasizing about food during
> > > a group session. It is
> > > as if the therapist picks up the sense of "hunger"
> > > and deprivation the
> > > patient is attempting to ward off. Because Renfrew
> > > therapists deal with so
> > > many patients with eating disorders, they are prone
> > > to very specific types
> > > of somatic countertransferential feelings. Pallaro,
> > > in
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
>____________________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
> > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
> >
> >
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