[Adta] Ramblings!

[Beth Kalish-Weiss,PhD]

Cynthia:
As a researcher yourself you know well the issues!
I think you & I are on the same page aren't we..?

Warmest regards to you,
Beth

-----Original Message-----
>From: Cynthia BERROL <cberrol at sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Feb 17, 2007 12:44 PM
>To: "Beth Kalish-Weiss,PhD" <bkalishweiss at mindspring.com>, skdmt2 <skdmt2 at bellsouth.net>, 'Heather Hill' <heatherhill at hotkey.net.au>, 'Adta listserve' <adta at adta.org>
>Subject: RE: [Adta] Ramblings!
>
>Beth,
>
>I appreciate your comments and agree entirely.  And,
>the Feder and Feder reference is a choice one—clearly
>dedicated to dance/movement therapists and very
>readable.
>
>As a member of the ADTA Research Subcommittee and
>having been involved in different aspects of research
>and its process over the years, I want to emphasize
>that there is more than one approach to  good
>evidenced based research. I don't believe that it
>should be perceived as impeding or compromising (et
>cetera) the therapeutic process, but rather
>augmenting, enhancing and validating it. I think the
>more we know and understand research options, the
>better we will be able to apply them in the clinical
>arena and to appreciate their value.
>
>A point of information: the Research  Subcommittee is
>planning a special session for the coming conference
>that should be of interest to all. Watch for it.
>
>Best,
>Cynthia
>
>--- "Beth Kalish-Weiss,PhD"
><bkalishweiss at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Dear Susan et al:
> 
>This correspondance is so interesting to me. First of
>all why do we keep re-inventing the wheel?  There are
>many studies in our field that are truly evidence
>based. If I may toot my own horn abit, my dissertation
>is one: A body movement scale for autistic and other
>atypical children ( Kalish, Bryn Mawr,1976). This is a
>developmental scale (supported by the observational
>research of both normal and atypical children in many
>child-care centers over the period of 1 year by 4
>trained objective raters). Observational evidence was
>supported by the statistical data produced in each
>observation. It is a scale that has proven itself over
>time to assess progress as well as regression during
>treatment in several diagnostic catagories such as: 1)
>autism 2) visually impaired 3) retarded individuals
>regardless of chronological ages. Why isn't it used
>and referred to more????
>Also, it comes to mind that Bernie and Elaine Feders'
>book is a gold mine for research-interested people in
>our field. In my opinion this is a fine resouce and
>truly undervalued in our field.  Here is the
>reference:  Feder,B & Feder, E.(1998) , `The art and
>science of evaluation in the arts therapies',
>Springfield,Charles C. Thomas.
> 
>By the way, in the field of psychoanalysis there are
>also state,national, even international pressure from
>insurance co's. and gov't agencies to produce what is
>generally called `evidence-based' studies. This has
>been a huge problem in the profession, due to issues
>of confidentiality and to the difficulties of testing
>variables ACROSS individuals in treatment.  I refer
>you to the ongoing work of Robert Wallerstein at
>Menningers and the problems that insued there even in
>a setting like Menningers. Peter Fonagy a
>psychologist-psychoanalyst in England has produced a
>volume on Outcome Studies in Psychanalysis from around
>the world, they are interesting to read, but once
>again do not truly answer the questions gov't agencies
>want. One has to be cautious to not bend to the
>requests of government agencies when doing research as
>
> it is highly important to be ethical with any
>research design and as " objective as possible" (
>which of course there is truly no such thing as
>absolutely objective)... Even the idea of "
>evidence-based" studies needs to be questioned
>closely.
> 
>O.K. those are some thoughts, hope they are helpful...
> 
>Regards,
>Beth
>
>
>
> 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: skdmt2 
>Sent: Feb 17, 2007 5:20 AM 
>To: 'Heather Hill' , 'Adta listserve' 
>Subject: RE: [Adta] Ramblings! 
>
>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
>{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
>{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
>{behavior:url(#default#VML);}     
>Hi Heather
>
>Thanks for taking me up on talking about evidence
>based d/mt, which, of course, means developing & using
>research to backup the importance of using our method
>w/ various populations & in various ways ( my
>interpretation anyway). 
>
> 
>
>You said; “The idea of "evidence-based" practice has
>been and still is the buzz word in the health field
>particularly and it is clear that for survival if
>nothing else, we have to address the need for research
>to underwrite our practice, if we are to maintain and
>increase the practice of dance therapy - if we are to
>find jobs, in fact!  “
>
> 
>
>Susan: I think we can’t say this too many ways,
>its’ that important.
>
> 
>
>Heather: Re “So the question for me is how do we
>deal with this.  Do we focus on developing evidence in
>scientific terms, or can we develop other methods
>which can capture what dance therapy actually achieves
>but still serve to "prove" to the relevant authorities
>that dance therapy is a bona fide therapy.  Also, I
>would like to think that we do not focus our entire
>research efforts on supplying evidence, but also
>explore our work more fully and seek understanding
>within this very rich field that we work in.�
>
> 
>
>Susan: Good questions.  I’d like to add, it’s not
>just having the research, but using it specifically &
>intentionally to promote our work- We have begun to 
>lead others into understanding that there IS evidence
>that what we do is beneficial ( thanks to our leaders
>in this arena),  but then I think we also have to get
>ourselves AND others to take it in� – to “decode
>it  � so that we, the general public AND allied
>professional can all see how it’s beneficial. 
>
> 
>
>So, it’s also knowing what to do with what we have-
>how to utilize it- make the most of it- facilitate it
>reaching the masses. I think this part is the
>promotional area- kind of like taking the seed- one
>piece of evidence ( in research format) & translating
>& promoting it in many ways to the public.
>
> 
>
>I think that’s where I need to focus. So, I’m
>thinking there are 2 parts- maybe there are more, but
>that one part is the one the researchers do- the
>studies & projects, etc. Then I think it has to move
>into other hands- like  GAC to understand what is
>needed legislatively & to fit into laws,  & then on to
>Marketing/PR to develop the evidence into promotional
>materials. Our PR people have done a great job of
>promoting d/mt but now I think we also need to move
>also in this direction.
>
> 
>
>Christina, what do you think re this?  How about our
>researchers?  Others?
>
> 
>
>Also, I think we ALL have to make it our business to
>do this- I know our research leaders have been saying
>this for years & that they tell us we can ALL do
>research & I think we DO it in some form each time we
>try something out w/ a pt- each time we’re creative-
>each time we develop a skill based on an idea, but we
>all don’t take it further into a study, w/ findings,
>etc. I am one of those people- I DO think, however, I
>can let others, who are so inclined,  do that part & I
>, & others like me, can develop on this other part of
>working w/ the more research inclined to translate the
>findings into evidence based promotion. I guess
>that’s why I’m on the PR committee !
>
> 
>
>Readers, What do you all think? Where do you fit? How
>would you like to get involved? How does it help you
>to talk about this subject/ Does it help you? How
>would it help you in your work? Might it give you a
>focus-Do you like it when you can use research focuses
>in your presentations? In your work? 
>
> 
>
>Please respond to these issues & other that may be
>triggered for you by the conversation Heather & I have
>begun to articulate.
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Susan
>
> 
>
>Susan Kleinman, MA, ADTR, NCC
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>From: adta-bounces at adta.org
>[mailto:adta-bounces at adta.org] On Behalf Of Heather
>Hill
>Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:08 AM
>To: Adta listserve
>Subject: [Adta] Ramblings!
>
>
> 
>
>Hi Susan!
>
>
>I thought I would accept your invitation to do some
>rambling on the subject of research, specifically the
>notion of evidence-based practice.  I guess I just
>want to raise some issues/questions which I think are
>important for dance therapy.
>
>
> 
>
>
>The idea of "evidence-based" practice has been and
>still is the buzz word in the health field
>particularly and it is clear that for survival if
>nothing else, we have to address the need for research
>to underwrite our practice, if we are to maintain and
>increase the practice of dance therapy - if we are to
>find jobs, in fact!  
>
>
> 
>
>
>I support strongly the idea of research in our field -
>we need have no fear that questioning our work will
>result in negative findings!  However, the problem for
>dance therapy, as I see it, is that the "evidence"
>talked about generally signifies evidence on someone
>else's terms, invariably a biomedical/natural sciences
>standard of measurement.  This is always going to make
>it difficult for us, since applying "pill"
>methodologies to dance therapy (ie trying to isolate
>the "treatment", talking in terms of cause and effect,
>requiring large numbers to show "significance", etc)
>is bound to disadvantage us.   - indeed you can be
>sure that the standards of proof for something as
>"alternative" as dance therapy is likely to be higher
>than for traditional, accepted practice. Yet for
>pragmatic reasons, we do need to find ways to
>demonstrate the effectiveness of the work - for our
>employers, for funding bodies and so on.  That's part
>of the current reality.
>
>
> 
>
>
>So the question for me is how do we deal with this. 
>Do we focus on developing evidence in scientific
>terms, or can we develop other methods which can
>capture what dance therapy actually achieves but still
>serve to "prove" to the relevant authorities that
>dance therapy is a bona fide therapy.  Also, I would
>like to think that we do not focus our entire research
>efforts on supplying evidence, but also explore our
>work more fully and seek understanding within this
>very rich field that we work in.
>
>
> 
>
>
>Anyway, those are just some thoughts and I welcome
>further "ramblings" from others.  This is very much a
>work in progress.
>
>
> 
>
>
>Kind regards,
>
>
>Heather
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Adta mailing list
>> Adta at adta.org
>> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>> 
>
>
>Cynthia Berrol, Ph.D., ADTR, Professor Emerita
>California State University, East Bay