[Adta] doctoral degree
Larmeniox
larmeniox at triad.rr.com
Thu Jan 25 08:53:16 EST 2007
Dear Potential Doc students:
I am responding to the requests about doctoral programs. In addition to the
questions Jenn asked, I want to preface with a comment about goals. My goal
was to work about 10 years in DMT and then return for a doctorate because I
wanted to teach in higher ed. After about 13 years experience, I was ready
to return to school and especially felt a need to catch up on research and
improve my writing skills. Goals play a role in the program you choose.
1. Where did you go, and how did you decide?
I applied in 1994-95, so there were few options for distance learning
programs. Walden was available but I got mixed reviews. There were no
doctoral programs in DMT. So I applied to psychology and counseling PhD
programs. I was 38 at the time. Psych programs literally wrote me that I was
too old. They preferred younger students right out of college. Counseling
programs were open to nontraditional students. UNC Greensboro happened to be
right here and wanted me, so I entered a cohort of 10. (8 of us finished.)
UNCG is one of the top counseling programs, and specializes in training
counselor educators. It is very traditional (full-time only, with classes
primarily in the daytime), CACREP-accredited, and a Research I institution.
It was perfect for me, because I liked the tree-lined campus, the social
context for learning, the on-campus clinic with observation rooms for
supervision, and face-to-face dialogue with faculty.
2. How did you incorporate your degree with DMT work?
This has a 2 part response. (Those of you who know me know that in order to
tell how we made the moccasins, I have to revisit finding the deer.) So part
1, during that decade, creative and expressive therapies were not household
words. People in other professions were just beginning to look at
interdisciplinary applications. Forecasts were that most faculty in academia
would be retiring around 2000-2010. This meant that a new wave of faculty
would be coming soon. Meanwhile, concepts of mindfulness, Buddhism, and
nonverbal communication were not on the research agendas for most faculty. I
was fortunate to be at a university with a dance program, and to have a
dissertation chair who was interested in arts and education. He valued my
unique perspective, but informed me that research in the fields was not
advanced enough for the basis of a dissertation. He suggested a validity
study of research in DMT and other CATs. This would have taken half my life,
so I opted instead to finish my degree during this life by choosing another
topic.
In the past 10 years, the research base has improved and expanded, and more
students are conducting research on meditation, breath therapy, and
CAT-related topics. New faculty are interested in, and more receptive to,
some of these topics. Technology has made a difference too, because we now
have more efficient and accurate ways of collecting and analyzing data.
Qualitative and analog approaches are more popular now, and
interdisciplinary research is the wave of the future. (Any good doc prgram
will have you doing research in some form or fashion. Research is the basis
of our professional practice. So if you don't like research....)
Soooo, I chose to investigate self-disclosure in clinical supervision.
Meanwhile, I presented at conferences & institutes on DMT, worked on the
ADTA Task Force with NBCC to recognize DMT and help establish parity with
counseling, and continued to offer my unique perspective in different class
settings.
3. Did your PhD improve your career/
If so, how?
The PhD definitely made me a better thinker and expanded my knowledge base.
I think I am a better clinician, teacher, and supervisor because of what I
learned in the program. I certainly know much more about research and
writing. Having a PhD has made it easier to collect insurance payments in
private practice and I think it makes a difference to most practitioners and
clients. It also overqualifies me for a lot of jobs.
4. Please add any other information that you would like to share!
I. Examine your goals for pursuing a PhD. Each program has different foci.
Some train practitioners and others train educators and researchers.
II. If you want to teach in higher ed, get a PhD, not EdD or PsyD.
University employers are looking for PhDs from accredited programs. Distance
Learning programs (like Capella University, U. Phoenix, etc.) do not have
the full endorsement of the professions. It is much harder to monitor the
work of folks in distance programs and many people consider them practical
options but not the best options. I think you must be highly disciplined and
self-motivated to get through one of them.
III. It's possible to work and get your PhD. I worked full-time, went to
school full-time, and parented 2 kids. I had the most supportive spouse I
could ever imagine, who cooked dinners, engaged in dialogue about counseling
issues, and took the kids away for weekends so I could work in silence. It
was not easy; I lost a lot of sleep, triggered premature menopause, and had
mono for over a year.
IV. People with PhDs make up about 2% of the population.
V. Chuck is right in that a doc program is a rich opportunitiy to meet and
interact with some of the most intelligent, visionary thinkers available.
BUT you have to make use of the available opportunity structure by attending
conferences, volunteering for committees, & presenting and doing guest
lectures.
VI. Once you are there, you can't go back. Dianne Dulicae made a statement
years ago in my masters program that stuck with me: Once you choose to
embrace knowledge, you cannot go back to ignorance (or something like that).
And I agree. Once you have that degree, you set higher standards for
yourself (and others). Some days you will want to go back to rocking on the
front porch in blissful ignorance. You can't.
VII. Don't fool yourself that a doc degree will satiate your desire for
learning or allow you to learn more about what you want to learn. If you are
a perpetual student, you will get your degree and then be hungry for more.
In fact, if it was a successful experience, you will have more questions
than answers. Doc programs teach you to ask good questions. AND doc programs
and faculty have their own agendas about what is important to learn.
Example: I worked with Jon Tudge, PhD on an independent study in human
development. I requested to look at Gardner's work on arts in education. He
suggested Vgotsky in the original Russian. We compromised on Vgotsky in
English. It was invaluable.
Leslie Armeniox, PhD, LPC, ADTR
----- Original Message -----
From: <adta-request at adta.org>
To: <adta at adta.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Adta Digest, Vol 15, Issue 37
> Send Adta mailing list submissions to
> adta at adta.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> adta-request at adta.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> adta-owner at adta.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Adta digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. handout re non-verbal attunement (Donna Newman-Bluestein)
> 2. More on Getting a Doctorate -- Chuck Yopst (Cmpssn2000 at aol.com)
> 3. RE: PhD programs (Susan Saenger)
> 4. Re: a question for those with Doctorate Degrees (Robyn Flaum Cruz)
> 5. (no subject) (NancyCrystals at cs.com)
> 6. Re: PhD for DMT's? (Jenn Frank)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:54:47 -0500
> From: "Donna Newman-Bluestein" <dbluebirds at rcn.com>
> Subject: [Adta] handout re non-verbal attunement
> To: "adta" <adta at adta.org>
> Message-ID: <001701c73fae$71f8d220$6501a8c0 at DONNADELL>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello All,
>
> I am being asked at work (in a nursing home) for hand-outs for non-verbal
> attunement for 2 separate purposes - one for a new volunteer program where
> volunteers will be trained to give hand massages to people with dementia,
> the other as part of a creative arts therapy presentation which will be
> given by a music therapist.
>
> I don't have much time to write this up, or do a search, so I wondered if
> anyone has any favorites which are brief and succinct that they might
> direct me to.
>
> Thanks.
> Donna
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.adta.org/pipermail/adta/attachments/20070124/3c57a679/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:32:30 EST
> From: Cmpssn2000 at aol.com
> Subject: [Adta] More on Getting a Doctorate -- Chuck Yopst
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID: <c47.dae9e68.32e90e4e at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Wednesday, 1:25 pm CST, 24 January 2007
>
> To: Laurice Nemetz.
>
> Along with the increased knowledge, resources, credentials and job
> opportunties, getting a doctorate takes a pursuer into meeting a host of
> many
> professionals in many fields and places personally that the pursuer would
> never have
> been able to do prior. And that alone is almost worth the whole price of
> the
> doctorate.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Chuck Yopst, D.Min., D.T.R., ADTA Illinois Chapter
>
> < <
> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:13:09 -0500
> From: Laurice Nemetz <lauricedn at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID: <45B65E45.3020205 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello to all,
>
> I have been contemplating pursuing a doctorate degree for a while and
> have been investigating several programs, particularly those
> self-directed such as Union and now Lesley. I wanted to ask those of
> you who have doctorate degrees what area they are in ( I've seen
> everything from education, medical DMT, psychology, etc. to more obscure
> titles), as well as to what has been most useful. Among my consulting
> jobs, I have been teaching in a university setting (yoga as well as
> guesting in the psychology department under DMT), but in order to be
> tenure-tracked I will need a doctorate. I also believe it can lend a
> lot of credibility to what I do, but I am putting this question out to
> all of you. As many of you know, I do have two small children so I am
> looking for flexibility in working this through.
>
> Thanks for any responses. You can email privately, or if you have
> information that will benefit the greater membership for discussion,
> please reply that way.
>
> Best,
> Lauri
>
> Laurice D. Nemetz, MA, ADTR, RYT, LCAT
> Wellness Bridge
> > >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:18:30 -0500
> From: "Susan Saenger" <ssaenger at nc.rr.com>
> Subject: [Adta] RE: PhD programs
> To: <adta at adta.org>
> Message-ID: <MGEFKKJCFGGDIMCKKHKKEEFKDIAA.ssaenger at nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> me too. I'm really interested in a program where I can continue to learn
> from dance therapists, though. Or at least people who really get where
> we're
> coming from. Any ideas about good programs are welcome!
>
> Susan Saenger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: adta-bounces at adta.org [mailto:adta-bounces at adta.org]On Behalf Of
> adta-request at adta.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: adta at adta.org
> Subject: Adta Digest, Vol 15, Issue 36
>
>
> Send Adta mailing list submissions to
> adta at adta.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> adta-request at adta.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> adta-owner at adta.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Adta digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: a question for those with Doctorate Degrees (Lora Wilson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:59:00 +0000
> From: "Lora Wilson" <writelora at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID: <BAY121-F263FF22648B2D6C25C22A0A2AC0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Laurice -
> Thank you for asking the question. I personally have been wrestling with
> the PhD question for a couple of years and have too been wondering what
> would be the most useful/lucrative/fulfilling degree. I am also
> interested
> in hearing the answers from our PhDs about their respective
> specializations
> and hope that all will reply to the general listserve.
>
> Thanks!
> Lora Wilson, MA, DTR
> Long Beach, CA
>
>
>>From: Laurice Nemetz <lauricedn at yahoo.com>
>>To: adta at adta.org
>>Subject: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
>>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:13:09 -0500
>>
>>Hello to all,
>>
>>I have been contemplating pursuing a doctorate degree for a while and have
>>been investigating several programs, particularly those self-directed such
>>as Union and now Lesley. I wanted to ask those of you who have doctorate
>>degrees what area they are in ( I've seen everything from education,
>>medical DMT, psychology, etc. to more obscure titles), as well as to what
>>has been most useful. Among my consulting jobs, I have been teaching in a
>>university setting (yoga as well as guesting in the psychology department
>>under DMT), but in order to be tenure-tracked I will need a doctorate. I
>>also believe it can lend a lot of credibility to what I do, but I am
>>putting this question out to all of you. As many of you know, I do have
>>two small children so I am looking for flexibility in working this
>>through.
>>
>>Thanks for any responses. You can email privately, or if you have
>>information that will benefit the greater membership for discussion,
>>please
>>reply that way.
>>
>>Best,
>>Lauri
>>
>>Laurice D. Nemetz, MA, ADTR, RYT, LCAT
>>Wellness Bridge
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Adta mailing list
>>Adta at adta.org
>>http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
> http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtaglin
> e_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Adta mailing list
> Adta at adta.org
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>
>
> End of Adta Digest, Vol 15, Issue 36
> ************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:09:59 -0500
> From: "Robyn Flaum Cruz" <robyncruz at stargate.net>
> Subject: Re: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
> To: "Laurice Nemetz" <lauricedn at yahoo.com>, <adta at adta.org>
> Message-ID: <005d01c74004$64e562f0$6401a8c0 at DJ6WTL11>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hi Laurice,
>
> I got my doctorate in Educational Psychology with a specialization in
> measurement and methdology at the University of Arizona. It was a very
> traditional program but that worked well for me. Even though I was an
> "older" student at the time and I did have to search for faculty who would
> support my research interests and who were willing to learn about dance
> therapy from me, it was truly rewarding. Two of those faculty are now
> retired but I am still frequently in touch with all of them and they are
> still always willing to assist me when I need them and they delight in
> keeping up with where my career goes! Another bonus for a traditional
> program was that I developed a wonderful study group (that usually met
> around my dining room table) and I keep in touch with several of them even
> though I graduated in 1995. Because I quickly identified faculty who were
> willing to stretch to work with me, and because I had my research interest
> identified, I was able to finish in slightly under 4 years going at it
> full-time and working only part-time. I now feel that those years were
> some
> of the best of my entire life because the challenge to my thinking
> processes
> was immense, and the experience of doctoral education really was
> transformative for me.
>
> Now I do some of my teaching in the doctoral program in Expressive
> Therapies
> at Lesley University and I see an advantage for my students in that they
> do
> not need to translate music therapy or dance therapy or whatever their
> training is for faculty. They do not have to search for faculty who are
> willing to be educated about what they do as I did. They also have more
> flexibility because the program is low-residency, and they have the
> opportunity to form study groups or cohorts using technology rather than
> the
> dining room table : ) The transformative factor seems to be equally a
> positive factor for them also -- at an upcoming doctoral conference in
> March, one of my doctoral students who is still pre-dissertation is
> presenting on his transformative learning.
>
> It is wonderful that there are so many options available, now that
> low-residency programs are taking hold and also now that there is the
> opportunity for doctoral study geared toward arts therapists. Hope at
> least
> some of this helps! Robyn
>
> Robyn Flaum Cruz, Ph.D., ADTR
> Editor-in-Chief, The Arts in Psychotherapy
> www.elsevier.com/locate/artspsycho
> President, American Dance Therapy Association
> www.adta.org
> Associate Professor & Coordinator of Dance Therapy,
> Expressive Therapies Division, Lesley University, Cambridge, MA
> 617-349-8413 or 412-401-1274
> www.lesley.edu/gsass/56etp.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Laurice Nemetz" <lauricedn at yahoo.com>
> To: <adta at adta.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 2:13 PM
> Subject: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
>
>
>> Hello to all,
>>
>> I have been contemplating pursuing a doctorate degree for a while and
>> have
>> been investigating several programs, particularly those self-directed
>> such
>> as Union and now Lesley. I wanted to ask those of you who have doctorate
>> degrees what area they are in ( I've seen everything from education,
>> medical DMT, psychology, etc. to more obscure titles), as well as to what
>> has been most useful. Among my consulting jobs, I have been teaching in
>> a
>> university setting (yoga as well as guesting in the psychology department
>> under DMT), but in order to be tenure-tracked I will need a doctorate. I
>> also believe it can lend a lot of credibility to what I do, but I am
>> putting this question out to all of you. As many of you know, I do have
>> two small children so I am looking for flexibility in working this
>> through.
>>
>> Thanks for any responses. You can email privately, or if you have
>> information that will benefit the greater membership for discussion,
>> please reply that way.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lauri
>>
>> Laurice D. Nemetz, MA, ADTR, RYT, LCAT
>> Wellness Bridge
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:32:57 -0500
> From: NancyCrystals at cs.com
> Subject: [Adta] (no subject)
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID: <78075000.4A3AED21.D82C6216 at cs.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Dear friends and collegues,
> If you have any published or unpublished work relating dance therapy to
> mask-making, I would like very much to include it in a paper I am writing
> on this subject. Please include the reference if it is published. If it
> is not in print, please send me a short synopsis describing your work,
> including the year or years the work was accomplished. You can Email the
> information to me at nancycrystals at cs.com. Thanking you in advance...
>
> Peace,
> Nancy Koprak,MA,ADTR,LCAT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:01:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jenn Frank <frankdance2003 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Adta] Re: PhD for DMT's?
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID: <970067.77755.qm at web51903.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Lora and Laurice,
>
> I third that motion! I am in the process of applying to SBGI for a PhD
> in Clinical Psych, with an emphasis in Somatic Psychology. I have
> researched numerous schools, and to me, the typical PhD sounds like nostly
> research, which peresonally, I don't think I can sustain for more than a
> year or two. The PsyD sounds good, but it really seemed like a lot of
> repetition of what we already do...but sitting and talking, instead of
> using the body...I would have to stop the moving/body aspect of studies
> and work, which is not something I want to do at this time...
>
> I, too would love to hear from DMT 's who have pursued a PhD:
>
> For those who wish to share info:
>
> 1. Where did you go, and how did you decide?
> 2. How did you incorporate your degree with DMT work?
> 3. Did your PhD improve your career/
> If so, how?
> 4. Please add any other information that you would like to share!
>
> Thank you!
>
> ~Jenn Frank Tantia
>
> adta-request at adta.org wrote:
> Send Adta mailing list submissions to
> adta at adta.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> adta-request at adta.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> adta-owner at adta.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Adta digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: a question for those with Doctorate Degrees (Lora Wilson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:59:00 +0000
> From: "Lora Wilson"
> Subject: RE: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
> To: adta at adta.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Laurice -
> Thank you for asking the question. I personally have been wrestling with
> the PhD question for a couple of years and have too been wondering what
> would be the most useful/lucrative/fulfilling degree. I am also interested
> in hearing the answers from our PhDs about their respective
> specializations
> and hope that all will reply to the general listserve.
>
> Thanks!
> Lora Wilson, MA, DTR
> Long Beach, CA
>
>
>>From: Laurice Nemetz
>>To: adta at adta.org
>>Subject: [Adta] a question for those with Doctorate Degrees
>>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:13:09 -0500
>>
>>Hello to all,
>>
>>I have been contemplating pursuing a doctorate degree for a while and have
>>been investigating several programs, particularly those self-directed such
>>as Union and now Lesley. I wanted to ask those of you who have doctorate
>>degrees what area they are in ( I've seen everything from education,
>>medical DMT, psychology, etc. to more obscure titles), as well as to what
>>has been most useful. Among my consulting jobs, I have been teaching in a
>>university setting (yoga as well as guesting in the psychology department
>>under DMT), but in order to be tenure-tracked I will need a doctorate. I
>>also believe it can lend a lot of credibility to what I do, but I am
>>putting this question out to all of you. As many of you know, I do have
>>two small children so I am looking for flexibility in working this
>>through.
>>
>>Thanks for any responses. You can email privately, or if you have
>>information that will benefit the greater membership for discussion,
>>please
>>reply that way.
>>
>>Best,
>>Lauri
>>
>>Laurice D. Nemetz, MA, ADTR, RYT, LCAT
>>Wellness Bridge
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Adta mailing list
>>Adta at adta.org
>>http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
> http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Adta mailing list
> Adta at adta.org
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>
>
> End of Adta Digest, Vol 15, Issue 36
> ************************************
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and
> hotel bargains.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.adta.org/pipermail/adta/attachments/20070124/a3775262/attachment.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Adta mailing list
> Adta at adta.org
> http://lists.adta.org/mailman/listinfo/adta
>
>
> End of Adta Digest, Vol 15, Issue 37
> ************************************
>
More information about the Adta
mailing list